Part of starting your own agency is creating a team you’d love to work on. And sometimes, that means doing things a little differently than the corporate world.
When copywriter Annie Bacher joined my program AGENCY, she had only recently decided to build a team. In reflecting on her past agency experiences, she realized she had the power to create a team that functioned differently and really get her teammates on board with her vision.
In today’s episode, Annie is sharing her journey from corporate agency to solo copywriting and eventually to running her own team. We discussed how your team can help you find balance with client communication and how outsourcing part of your workload can create freedom and flexibility in your schedule.
Annie is the owner of a small but growing copywriting collective that helps B2B SaaS teams find clarity and simplicity in their messaging so they can connect with new and existing users. She and her team work with beloved and established software startups like Pitch, Feedly, and recently… ConvertKit! Annie’s obsessed with making the internet a more pleasant, more human place, and copywriting is her chosen medium.
Nicole Jackson Miller [00:00:00] Welcome to the Scale Your Way podcast episode number 82. You’re listening to the Scale Your Way podcast, where we share simple, proven strategies just for fun for you service based companies. Here, you’ll learn how to scale your business on your own terms so that you can have more time and money, create a bigger impact and a better life. I’m your host, Nicole Jackson Miller. Let’s dove into today’s episode. Hey, everyone, Nicole, here today, I’m excited to share with you a conversation I had with Annie Batch record, who is the owner of a small but growing copywriting collective that helps B2B SaaS teams find clarity and simplicity in their messaging so that they can connect with new and existing users. So Annie and her team work with incredible software startups like Pitch, Feedly and recently, ConvertKit. Annie is obsessed with making the internet a more pleasant and more human place and copywriting as her chosen medium. So in this conversation, Annie is going to share with you how she got into copywriting, how she decided to grow her team, and he is also a member of my agency program that helps business owners delegate at least 50 percent of client delivery in 12 months or less. And she’s going to share with you some wins that she’s had inside of the program, how it has allowed her to change her work schedule, to take a vacation and to be able to serve more incredible businesses. And I just absolutely love Annie’s mission of making the internet a more human place. We have a lot of similar values in that way, and I can’t wait to share with you this conversation. Enjoy. All right. Hey, Annie, welcome to the show.
Annie Bacher [00:01:56] Hi, Nicole. Thanks for having me.
Nicole Jackson Miller [00:01:58] Yeah, I’m excited to dive in, and I would love to start with you telling us a little bit about your obsession with making the internet a more pleasant and more human place. I think that that’s something that I value as well. And so I’d love to know kind of where that came from for you.
Annie Bacher [00:02:21] So, yeah, so I started my copywriting career in a big agency called Wunderman, and it was a team of like 50 people working on one client account. And it was really cool because we got exposed to all different types of campaigns. But the one thing that we didn’t get to really touch on was getting to know our customers and getting to know the people that are actually reading all these emails that we were writing everyday. And I didn’t I didn’t realize this at the time, but we would write emails with clever headlines, and this is like a big airline. So we would basically write for our own entertainment, like writing clever headlines and coming up with fun campaigns. But it didn’t occur to me until later that we had no idea who is receiving this and how is it making them feel? And what about what problems are resolved for them? So later I started working with a smaller, like a very small design agency, and it was through that. So I was a product manager and copywriter kind of hybrid role with them. And there I started, like I would run customer interviews and user tests, and I would be interviewing users while they were going to a product or customers. While they would be like reading a webpage. And I would see the feelings that it was bringing up for them or how excited they got or how frustrated they would get with certain designs on certain experiences. So that really kind of brought the whole job alive for me. And that’s when I started getting a little more obsessed with the user experience and really caring about the person on the other side of the screen.
Nicole Jackson Miller [00:04:08] Yes. Wow. So, 50 team members on one client account. Were they all copywriters?
Annie Bacher [00:04:16] No, it was. It was quite well organized, OK? And like quite the assembly line. But there were like account managers, but everyone had a very specific role. So my role was to write the copy. I didn’t really communicate much with the client. Then they were like designers and project managers, and everyone had like a tiny part, which is great from an efficiency perspective. But yeah, from a human contact perspective, it wasn’t as wonderful.
Nicole Jackson Miller [00:04:47] Yeah. So that’s interesting. So you worked at this big agency and you said you worked for a smaller agency. And I know when we were talking, you were like, I have kind of seen what I like and don’t like about where I worked in the past, which I think everyone does to a degree, right? And that’s why you want to bring into your own company. So I’m curious how your experience as being inside of these agencies helped her. Did it make you want to start your own agency or did it kind of do the opposite of like, I don’t want to repeat this ever again?
Annie Bacher [00:05:20] Yeah, I mean, both. So, OK. And it’s only now that I like working in a big agency. At that time, I didn’t. I wasn’t interested in this whole thing like building a team, building my own agency thing. So I didn’t look at how everything worked. But now looking back at the. The big agency, it’s really impressive, like how smoothly things ran, and now I understand why there were so many different roles, but at the time it didn’t. I didn’t understand why, like I as the copywriter, couldn’t speak directly with the client and why we had to have all these steps in between. And now, of course, I realized it would have been a mess if I got on client calls. And then with the small agency, I guess, does the opposite experience like I didn’t realize at the time that I was. So I came on as a project manager and I was actually the first like. It was just the two two founders and then they had a team of freelancers and like an extended team of designers. But I think I was the first operator hired. And at the time, of course I didn’t. I had no idea what they were doing. I didn’t understand what it meant to build an agency. But looking back, like I was a team member number three in the core team and now the agency that I worked for, I think they have like 13 full time people and 14, 13 permanent team members. So yeah, that was like the opposite experience. Like we were defining roles as we went and kind of like building the system from scratch. And I didn’t I didn’t realize at the time that we were kind of building the structure for a bigger agency.
Nicole Jackson Miller [00:07:02] Right, right. Because you step right when you step into a position, sometimes you don’t really know what exactly it is, especially with a growing company, because things are changing so, so fast. And so I’m curious as a copywriter being put into kind of like a project manager type of role, like those skill sets are quite different. Did you like that?
Annie Bacher [00:07:24] I actually loved it. So I live in Argentina and I am a native English speaker, obviously, and that this agency works with a lot of clients in the US. So they needed someone who spoke English fluently and they had a mutual contact. They knew I was really good at communicating with clients from other freelance work, but I had never I never had the role of project manager, but I had shown that I had those kinds of skills. But yeah, I had to learn. I had to learn it all from scratch. But I think it was actually pretty incredible because I got well. As a project manager, you get to see inside the whole process of like you get to see into the like when you first bring the client on board and get to know them and then you get you’re involved in everything, whereas the man is a copywriter, like sometimes if you’re just the copywriter, you don’t get brought in until later. So it was kind of sneaky way, too. So I got myself into like I got to run customer interviews, then I got to like, manage the designers. So that was actually, I think, really helpful for what I’m doing now, which is more project managing and copywriting.
Nicole Jackson Miller [00:08:36] Sure. And you know, I’m sure it’s interesting as you grow your team as well to kind of figure out like, how do I? It’s the balance, right? Because it sounds like the first company that you worked at. It was super well organized. It was well run, but it was lacking this human connection interaction piece. But it kind of made sense why? But at the same time, it’s like, OK, obviously that was important to you, and it’s important to the business, right for the team members to be aware of the clients and understand the problems that were being solved in all of this. So I’m sure as you’re growing your team, it’s like, OK, how do I find that balance of efficiency and process, which is needed? And also like, how do we make the team members aware of who they’re working with and why things are important and what’s important? And I actually just released inside of AGENCY the management method, and we talked a little bit about company tools, management tools that you can use. And part of it is like, what’s your company’s mission? What is a sneak peek? If you haven’t been to, I can’t. And you know, what are your offerings like, who are your clients and like being able to like, give team members more of an overview of what’s happening, which ultimately then helps them perform in their job. But I remember going into companies even when we were doing project management services and we got in there and we’d be working on like one very specific project. But sometimes we didn’t quite understand how it fit into the whole business, which was difficult, especially when it came to managing resources or people that may have been working on other things. And so finding ways to be able to balance the two, I think, are really important.
Annie Bacher [00:10:31] I think about that every single day because, yeah, I hadn’t thought about that, but because I’ve experienced both like being. Totally shielded from the clients and then also being really in it. And that’s actually something looking back like the agency that the smaller agency, the two founders, and they were figuring out all the stuff at the time to what their mission was and what the goal was, why they were building this team. But I think sometimes they would. They didn’t realize that they needed to bring us along with the mission. And we would have these like meetings because we’re all here in person. And so we’d have these in-person meetings and they would just tell us about their vision. And it would just blow my mind because I was just like in the day to day, just responding to emails and managing projects, and I had no idea that they had this bigger vision for the agency. So I think about that a lot, like trying to bring people along that I work with about like what I’m what I’m aiming for.
Nicole Jackson Miller [00:11:28] Yeah. So I’m kind of bringing this back to when we met because you had applied for AGENCY and we had a conversation around it, like, why did you why did you ultimately decide to join the program?
Annie Bacher [00:11:41] I mean, the big reason is like, nobody else is talking about this stuff, and I, well, originally saw it when I found that when I first got the idea, I want to build a team. The way I learn things these days is through podcasts, so I’ll go to Apple Podcasts and I’ll search like if I want to learn about headline writing copywriting headlines like search it in iTunes. So I searched something like “building teams” and Apple, and I just followed, or I just downloaded a bunch of episodes of, I think, your podcasts and a couple of others. And yeah, that opened a whole new world for me just like all these topics that feel very intuitive to the people that do them well. But I didn’t realize that there was kind of more of a theory and methodology behind it all. So then, yeah, I guess like knowing that I wanted to know more of the theory and like the like, I’m more methodical with a building, an agency than just kind of figuring it out as you go, which I think a lot of people do. Yeah, but also I had just kind of finished up a year long mastermind like copywriting mastermind program, and that had been incredible for me. Like, it really worked for me in terms of just having this consistent accountability and like really small group guidance and then seeing being with peers who are at similar levels or ahead of me. So I knew I wanted to be in another program like that, and it just worked really well.
Nicole Jackson Miller [00:13:10] So were you experiencing challenges like really challenges or problems? Or was it more you just like wanting to avoid big problems and challenges and just like wanting to learn how to do it?
Annie Bacher [00:13:24] Yeah, it was more the avoiding problems and challenges. And it was like I noticed that I I wasn’t taking action because I was afraid to repeat mistakes that I had experienced in the past with other teams. Sure. So I knew I wanted someone. I wanted guidance to like, build a team responsibly.
Nicole Jackson Miller [00:13:45] What were some of the mistakes that you saw happen that you wanted to avoid?
Annie Bacher [00:13:51] So I mentioned, like, not not bringing us along, like not like. So I wanted to understand this balance of how to kind of build this thing, but then also do the day to day like get people to do the day to day, just like structuring a team and responsibilities. Also, I feel like in the online business space, you hear a lot of like just hire a VA and and it doesn’t. The advice doesn’t often go too much deeper than that. And I just didn’t want that to be my like the only advice I was getting right. I knew there had to be more to it.
Nicole Jackson Miller [00:14:33] Some strategy behind like who I hire based on, like my business and what my needs are and what I’m doing, and not just like kind of some blanket advice.
Annie Bacher [00:14:45] Yeah. Well, and then also actually, I think the timing with agency, I had just read “E-Myth,” the book, and that when I talked to other copywriters who have read that they have the same kind of experience of, I think it really opened their eyes to like, Oh, I need to I need to go beyond just being, what does he call it, the technician? And so I had just kind of I just kind of gotten my eyes open to that. And so it felt like agency was kind of the how, like I was convinced that working on the other parts, like the structure of the business and the like organizational structure was worth it. Could I? Yeah, I needed help.
Nicole Jackson Miller [00:15:25] To figure out how to do it. Yeah, totally. So I’m curious, what are some of the things that you’ve implemented since joining the program? So now it’s been how many months July, August, September for five? Five months, wow. My gosh, so like, yeah, OK, yeah, so tell us what you’ve what you’ve implemented.
Annie Bacher [00:15:46] Yeah. So I guess the first few months were about letting a couple of things go. So doing the exercises of figuring out so it’s different when you’re a service provider, it’s easier to do and scalable services because it’s just you. But I had to and I’m still working on this. But I had one client in particular that I realized it would not. It was barely sustainable with me, just doing it myself just for like the rates they could pay. But then I realized if I wanted to take this seriously, I needed to drop those. And I think that was like my first action item. So like releasing this one client and then increasing my prices. So like being aware, yeah, I became aware of the real numbers of the services I was offering. So for example, like if I read a case study for a client on my own, it’s easy to kind of not be aware of how much that actually cost. But when I had to, I had to list out all the steps and all the different, like the writing and the editing and the interview and everything like that. So that forced me to increase my prices.
Nicole Jackson Miller [00:17:04] Yeah. So it was actually that I was doing the offerings at scale exercise right or actually like listing it all out.
Annie Bacher [00:17:10] Yeah, that was a harsh reality.
Nicole Jackson Miller [00:17:14] Good. I say in the training, I’m like, Just so, you know, this is just data because so many people have filled out that she and I are like, Oh my gosh, my offerings aren’t profitable. And it’s like, but they’re still usually operating, and some have client delivery. So it’s OK. It’s just making sure that you’re making the changes needed. You’re you’re you’re learning it now before you build out this whole team and then realize like you can’t pay them, or if you’re having issues with cash flow or profitability, being able to figure out why. And sometimes it can not feel great. Sometimes people go through the exercise and they’re like, I’m super profitable. Yeah, me and and and a lot of times people are like, I’m at break even. And then and then sometimes too, it’s like, I’m in the negative, right? But it’s just information to be able to say, OK, like, Well, what do we need to change and shift in the future? And I don’t really believe in like again, you kind of said like the blanket advice, just hire a VA like I don’t believe in, just like everyone needs to raise their pricing because it’s like, Well, do they? I don’t know. You know, everyone, every business is different and so that exercise just really helps with that so that as you continue to grow your team, you’re able to pay them and and pay yourself then. And when you do raise your rates, you know why you’re raising your rates, which can be helpful when you’re having conversations with new clients coming in. But even if sometimes people work on retainer and they need to increase their rates with their current clients, and so being able to just have that information can be really helpful so that you can speak to it and speak to it. And it doesn’t feel like it’s just coming out of the air totally.
Annie Bacher [00:18:53] And just feel more unjustified. And you’re not just you’re not just raising rates because someone in a Facebook group said that you should always raise rates.
Nicole Jackson Miller [00:19:01] Yes. Yes. Yeah. Right. You have to, like, justify it to yourself so that you can then show up in those conversations and feel good about it. So that’s great. Anything else? I mean, I know there’s been other things that you’ve implemented, maybe taking some things off of your plate. And I’m curious, like because you were working with some people when you joined, did you hire in if you could share more about things like hiring and offloading some responsibilities? How did we do that? Yeah.
Annie Bacher [00:19:29] So I think when I joined, I had just started kind of working with one other writer on projects, and now I’ve worked with like three writers on a consistent basis. So to the two of the other things, kind of like systems or systems? Yeah, related. We’re creating. So I roughly created some space, but I created it like an SOP library. And actually this was a win from the agency that was getting my VA to do them herself like she would. For example, she would upload a case study onto my site. And then instead of me creating the SOP, I would assign her a task to then create this app based on what she had just done and like all the other little intermediate steps. And then I just reviewed it, and most of the time it was perfect because she had just done the task. So like getting, I don’t know in general, just like getting people that I work with more involved in the system side of things and not just keeping that for myself.
Nicole Jackson Miller [00:20:34] How did she feel about doing that?
Annie Bacher [00:20:37] I think I think it’s great. She was really good at it and included the basic structure, like a notion, I have this library, so I just shared a page with her. And then she added screenshots. And then it was also helpful because she added things that I had commented to her that I wouldn’t have remembered, like, Oh, any likes when you do this, they are like, format this thing this way. And that was helpful.
Nicole Jackson Miller [00:21:03] Yeah, I love that because I think sometimes we are afraid to, like, ask our team to do things, and it’s like almost assuming maybe they wouldn’t like it. Or I don’t know, do they have time? And sometimes just like being able to assume less and to ask people to help us share with people what you need? And then a lot of times they do it better than you do or catch things that you might not. And then you can review it and it just makes for a better outcome because ultimately, the subpoena includes things that it wouldn’t have included if you had just done it on your own. And maybe it wouldn’t have even gotten done because it’s like, I don’t have the time to do this.
Annie Bacher [00:21:44] Yeah, that’s the more likely answer. I just never would have created these associates, but now I have. I have a growing collection of I suppose it’s incredible. Yeah, and that’s just like consistently creating a space and actually sharing them with my team.
Nicole Jackson Miller [00:21:59] Incredible. That’s awesome. OK, cool. So you’ve raised your prices. You have the SOPs, teams helping you create the SOPs, you went from working with one team member in client delivery to, you said, three team members.
Annie Bacher [00:22:16] Yeah. I have three writers that I work with on a project basis, but a fairly regular basis. And yeah, it’s kind of the point where I can know which client voices they work best with and I can really trust them. So, yeah, I had a, I don’t know, a few months ago and I realized that I had gone out for the day to like run errands and things were getting done. And that was like a huge aha moment.
Nicole Jackson Miller [00:22:45] Yeah, totally. And tell everyone a little bit about your schedule because I remember one of the goals that you said that you had, this was pretty recent, was to work from 10 to five every day. And so it was I feel like when we talked about it, it was kind of like, yes, eventually. Eventually I’ll have the schedule and I’m like, No, let’s just do this now. So will you share it? Because I’m sure there’s people listening who would love to adjust there. I mean, working hours, that’s what we all want to do, probably shorten the amount of hours that we’re working on certain client delivery or certain things inside of the business. What was that like for you to actually implement it and probably implement it a little bit faster than you thought you would?
Annie Bacher [00:23:29] Yeah, a lot faster. So I think I came to call on, yeah, I was like on Tuesday and I was like, So my goal eventually and dream world is to work ten to five because that sounds luxurious and like to have the whole morning until 10:00 and then to have the whole afternoon after 5:00. And like here in Argentina, dinner’s at 9:00. So if I finish work at 5:00, I have this whole four hours until dinner time. That’s just free time. So that felt very luxurious. Yeah. And Nicole, you were just like, OK, so on Monday you’re working 10 to five and it’s been the best thing ever. I just can’t get over it because it feels like such a simple thing. So every day when I start work, like if it’s nine, forty seven, I write I’m forty seven and then seven hours later. So even if I start earlier or later, it’s still seven hours because sometimes I like to start at 7:30 and I used to. I used to start at 7:30 and then I would work until 5:00 anyway, which is a lot of hours. Quite a few. Yeah, yeah. So now I like to write down the start time and then I go in like my dashboard, in Notion I have the time I should finish, and I set that as a reminder. So it’s like pop up at seven hours later, and it reminds me that that’s a nice enough time. And it’s just, well, first of all, the first week was very much about awareness, so I had to write down what took me over the five o’clock mark. And a lot of it was like project management stuff. And then a lot of it was writing. So I realized I needed more help with writing. And then I probably needed to. And I still haven’t hired someone to help me with this, but I need help with project management. But now, like this week, I really like yesterday. I stopped at five and so I’m slowly adjusting because I’m working from 10 to five. I’m adjusting my understanding of my capacity. And yeah, it’s just been really great because that’s the whole kind of my motivation behind building an agency is like having being able to serve more clients, but having more time to myself.
Nicole Jackson Miller [00:25:36] Yeah. Yeah, and I I think that exercise of starting to implement it a little bit faster than you initially think, it allows you to become more like you had mentioned, self-aware, it moves it from being like an unconscious thing to a conscious thing. So it’s like, I guess, maybe sometimes like unintentional versus intentional. So it’s like, OK, as opposed to just working from 7:30 to 5:00. And it’s like, where did the day go and what did I do? And I know I need help, but I’m not sure what it is, right? It’s very messy. But if you can create some structure around it and then document, OK, like what are the things that took me outside of my desired hours? It becomes a little bit easier to figure out, OK, well, where do I need more support? And if ultimately this isn’t, you know, sustainable for how I want to grow the company? So what are some of the changes that I can make? Some of them you might be able to make right away, and some of them might be kind of more of a longer term strategy, especially if it involves, you know, hiring and sometimes you can hire right away and that is something that you could implement. And so when we were chatting, I knew that the schedule change could happen right away and it wasn’t like you shall only work between ten and five. It was like, Listen, if you go outside, like, just write down and debrief, there’s like, give yourself a moment to debrief and become really conscious around what’s happening. So that then you’re just more you’re well informed so that you can then make the changes down the road.
Annie Bacher [00:27:13] Yeah, it’s been so helpful. I think finding a way to make it visible to yourself and not just be like, I don’t know how much time I work. It feels like too much. And actually, I was just looking at my toggle. I check my working time and toggle, and it’s been a goal of mine for so long to like to keep earning the same but reduce the amount of hours. And I generally work. I would track like 40 hours a week on toggle, which means I was working more because you don’t track everything. And now it’s down to like some weeks or twenty seven or thirty three low 30 years, but it’s like it’s made an actual difference.
Nicole Jackson Miller [00:27:53] Wow, I love that you have the data to show that it’s cool. Yeah, data is helpful. And so I know another thing that we talked about, you had mentioned something about not wanting to take on more clients, and we had talked about there being a goal of getting a few additional clients while also reducing your workload, or at least like allowing it to be the same. So how did that go for you?
Annie Bacher [00:28:21] It was a good reminder. So I probably like a lot of people, when I feel busy, I tend to just want to shut down my lead generation and not accept calls. But when I’m open to this little woo, like when I am open to people coming in like my actually last week, I had like two leads just kind of unexpectedly just show up in my inbox. So that tends to happen. But yeah, so I set a goal for October to have two new clients, and it forced me to be more open to having those conversations, like having sales conversations. And it’s been a real mindset shift for me to remember like this is a constant reminder of new because I have people I work with and I have a team. Getting new clients doesn’t mean being overwhelmed. And that’s really hard to remember. But because in the past, like for the past five years, if I got a new client and I had more work and that I was more overwhelmed. But now getting a new client means I get to like, delegate and collaborate with other writers and have a lot of fun. So yeah, so as like right after I set that goal, I got it. I got in touch with one new client and they have been onboarded and we’re already working on the second project. And then I actually had my second second new client booked last week, so I have my call.
Nicole Jackson Miller [00:29:47] That’s awesome. OK, so it’s working.
Annie Bacher [00:29:51] Yeah, it’s working.
Nicole Jackson Miller [00:29:52] It’s working. What are you? What are some of the things that you’re excited about working on next? So you’ve implemented a lot in your business so far. You’re taking on more clients, you’re bringing in writers, you’re tweaking your schedule. Like, what are some of the next things that you’re going to be implementing?
Annie Bacher [00:30:11] I guess this is going to sound boring, but I’m really excited to keep doing what I’m doing and like, keep getting new clients because that’s really fun for me. Like every, every client has an opportunity to get to know a new product and get to know new people. And like the clients I work with, they are awesome. They’re just really similar. They’re similarly excited about user experience and like humans. Centered design, so I’m really excited about that. And then, yeah, like working with more writers, I really love the mentoring part. So that’s I think what’s next for me is kind of pushing myself to get in touch with my writers and build the team.
Nicole Jackson Miller [00:30:54] Mm. Cool. So I want to ask you a question. I ask almost every guest about scaling, and I know that for some, some people you’re scaling and it’s like, I don’t want to do that because scaling can mean different things to different people. And so I’m curious for you, what does it mean for you to scale your way?
Annie Bacher [00:31:16] Yeah. Well, until I started listening to your podcast and kind of being in the agency program, I actually have I have an email that I sent out to my list that was about like why scaling stocks or something like something like that, because the narrative in the I think it’s changing, but the narrative so it’s so dominant of like scaling means building an online course and or building a digital product and selling this like passive income. And I’m just not interested in that. So now scale your way means that like you decide the rules and and you can change the rules of like what scaling looks like for you and that scaling it doesn’t mean like, I don’t know. I feel like in the online business, space scaling means like scaling to a million dollars and cost of income, and you’re not doing anything but scaling can be like like what I’m doing, like reducing my capacity by five hours a week and doing like increasing my revenue slowly like that, that also. So that’s been kind of a shift.
Nicole Jackson Miller [00:32:27] Yeah, it’s like how we’re defining and what we’re making scaling mean. And I love that you. I actually operate similarly where I like to make slow small changes. And because sometimes it’s in those little little changes, they can make such a difference. And then from there you can. It reminds me I have not read this book. Is it atomic habits or habits? Yeah. Have you read that book? Yeah. So it’s funny. So I’m going to talk about that book like, I’ve read it, but I haven’t read it. I just kind of like, it’s OK. I know some things about it. And it’s I know that like he focuses on like those small little changes that can make such a difference. And what’s interesting about helping done-for-you service providers make changes to grow their agencies is that it’s a lot of habit changes. You know, like you had mentioned, it’s really easy to create packages that aren’t even sometimes sustainable, let alone scalable when you’re the only person providing the service or it’s easy to charge, like one thing when you’re the only one doing the work. But when you have a team, you have to start thinking differently. And that’s like a habit and why I look at a lot of this stuff as a practice. It’s not something that you necessarily just like checking off of a list. It takes time and practice and implementation. And that’s why I talk about spiraling up. And now, you know, it’s you can’t just skip to the top, like you have to really, you know, implement and learn and practice. And it’s not always going to be. It’s probably never going to be perfect. You’re going to have some wins and you’re going to have some times where you make mistakes. But it’s just like slowly continuing with that practice and showing up and doing those things that don’t really look. You would even say this kind of thing is boring. My focus, right, is like to keep going. A bit like that is literally what it takes to be able to scale your own way.
Annie Bacher [00:34:31] Totally. And can I share another book recommendation? When you’re done with atomic habits or maybe even before? Have you read the slight edge? No, that’s another. It takes the idea of compounding interest and applies it to anything entrepreneurship. And that book, I think about the book like every single day. The whole idea is that like you, all these little, it’s these little things like investing a penny that you know, if you invest a penny and it doubles every day for a month, it becomes like $10 million. So it’s all these little things that you could do or could not do. And in the day, they feel not important, but when they compound over time, they’re like exponential. So I think of it like service providers, just like doing the little compounding things. And then one day you’re like, Oh my God, how did I? How did that person become successful overnight? And it’s like, No, it’s because they’re doing all these little things.
Nicole Jackson Miller [00:35:24] Yes, which is so challenging and like our world of instant gratification and anyway, which I some I so get hooked on, it’s like, we know like why I even notice, like when I’m ordering things online and it’s like, Oh, this can’t get here tomorrow. Like, why can’t I get here tomorrow? You mean it’s going to be three days? Never mind. And it’s like that all like, you don’t even need this thing. Like, right now, what are you doing? So, yeah, I I love that. And we’ll link to these books inside of the show notes as well to make it super easy for people to check them out. And thank you so much for being here and for sharing a bit more about your business and your experience growing your business. And I’m so glad. I love your mission and it’s very human focused, and that’s what we’re all about here. So thank you.
Annie Bacher [00:36:12] Thanks so much.
Nicole Jackson Miller [00:36:15] Thanks so much for tuning in. If you are ready to stop settling for being a done for you service provider and really fully step into the role of agency owner and CEO and lead a team that you love that just delivers excellent client results, then you have to check out my new program called Agency, which is specifically designed to remove you from at least 50 percent of client delivery in 12 months or less, so that you can have the time in the space to be able to run your business and, you know, to take a tech free vacation, too. That’s always nice, right? So if you’re interested in learning more, head over to Nicole Jackson Millicom slash applied. You can learn more about the program. If it looks like a good fit, then apply and we will send you before our call. We’ll send you a free business assessment that will really explain more about the framework that we use to remove you from client delivery, and it’ll give you an assessment that you can take to really show where you are now and where you’re going. We’ve had so many people get a lot of insight just from taking that assessment, so I can’t wait for you to check it out.