086: Values, Equity and Hiring with Meg Baker

Hiring can be intimidating. But for socially conscious business owners, it’s also one of our greatest opportunities to combat inequity and injustice in the workplace.

When she made the leap from hiring contractors to hiring employees, Meg Baker knew she wanted to create a workplace where everyone felt empowered and supported. Through being open about her values and asking the big, uncomfortable questions–both of her employees and of her clients–she’s been able to foster equity in her business and help other CEOs do the same.

In today’s episode, Meg is sharing her journey on hiring the right team, and creating a work environment that prioritizes diversity, equity, and inclusion. She opens up about her own experience being held accountable as a business owner and how it helped shape her business and processes today. Plus, we’re talking about being open with your values online, especially if you want to hire like-minded people.

What’s in this episode:

How Meg found her passion for equity in the workplace
Why you should be up-front with your values in your business
Attracting clients and employees who are aligned with your values
Why it’s important to ask the big, uncomfortable questions
Transactional leadership versus transformational leadership
When to make the leap from hiring contractors to hiring employees

Links:

AGENCY

Connect With Meg:

Website | Instagram | Facebook

About Meg:

Meg Baker is the founder of Meg K & Co., a hiring agency for socially conscious online businesses. She’s also a mom, a social justice advocate, and a disruptor devoted to helping others grow their businesses while directly racial inequity in the workplace.

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EPISODE 86 TRANSCRIPT:

Download the Episode 86 Transcript

Nicole Jackson Miller [00:00:00] Welcome to the Scale Your Way podcast episode number 86.

Nicole Jackson Miller [00:00:07] You’re listening to the Scale Your Way podcast, where we share simple, proven strategies just for done-for-you service based companies. Here, you’ll learn how to scale your business on your own terms so that you can have more time and money, create a bigger impact and a better life. I’m your host, Nicole Jackson Miller. Let’s dive into today’s episode. Everyone, I am so excited to welcome Meg Baker back on to the podcast. She is the CEO and founder of Meg K. And Co., a hiring agency for socially conscious companies. Other hats she wears are mom, social justice advocate and disruptor. In this conversation, we talk about how Meg’s business has evolved since our last conversation on the podcast. She talks about how she got super clear on her passion, which is racial equity in the workplace, and how she brings that into her hiring process with her clients. We also have a really great conversation on leadership and the difference between transactional leadership and transformational leadership. You will not want to miss this. Without further ado, here’s my conversation with the one and only Meg Baker. Hey, Meg! Welcome back to the show.

Meg Baker [00:01:25] Hey, Nicole, thanks so much for having me. I’m so excited to be here.

Nicole Jackson Miller [00:01:28] I know I will always love chatting with you. So everyone who’s listening. We were just catching up for probably about 15 minutes before we started recording and were like, time out. We need to actually do it. We’re here to do both. So Meg, I’m glad to have you back. I love what you do. Hiring is something that we all need. It’s something that I am obviously quite passionate about, and I know people who are listening have had difficulties when it comes to hiring and have some difficulties like practically in the process of hiring. And there’s a lot of fear that goes into the hiring process of wanting to avoid hiring, sometimes because something hasn’t worked out well in the past or because the process feels too complicated. And so I’m just really happy to have you here so that we can talk more about that. We can talk also about how I know something that you really specialize in is creating more equitable hiring processes. And so some ways to do that. So anyway, I am ready to dive in. I also am excited to get a little bit of a business update because you were on the podcast like it feels like it was years ago.

Meg Baker [00:02:39] I can’t deal with it, construct, with the construct that is time anymore. I’m like, What is time? I don’t know. But yeah, it was. It was over a year ago.

Nicole Jackson Miller [00:02:48] Yeah, it was a while. I was going onto the website to find your episode, and I kept scrolling and I was like, Wow, that was so long ago. So I feel like, you know, you’re still focused on hiring, but there’s been some things that have changed. So could you just quickly bring everyone up to speed on how things have shifted a bit for you over the course of this past year?

Meg Baker [00:03:07] Yes, I don’t even know where to begin.

Nicole Jackson Miller [00:03:10] Well, let’s talk about what’s changed in terms of your has. Have your offerings changed at all? Have you been like, what you actually offer to people when it comes to hiring?

Meg Baker [00:03:22] Yeah. So the offer hasn’t changed that much. I was kind of doing a mixture of consulting with kind of hiring. But since our episode, I really honed in on just creating this done-for-you, a hiring package that is standalone, that is eight weeks. I was kind of trying to help folks to like, figure out onboarding and things like that. But I realized my brilliance and my genius is in recruiting and in hiring. So that’s pretty much all we do now. And my agency offer is our done-for-you hiring package since then. Also, I’m doing some other offers as well, some more DIY offers, but I really stayed focused on our agency offer so I could just get really good at it and get a lot of evidence that it works. And that really just helps me with my confidence, too. When I sell it and just like, I like getting that information before I started doing digital products. And also since then, I’ve definitely stood firmer in my beliefs around diversity, equity and inclusion and what our responsibilities are as business owners, especially white business owners, to do better in our processes and be more inclusive and actively get diverse candidates into the door instead of solely relying on our networks. And then I also have employees. So when we last spoke, I don’t think I even had contracted support yet, and I learned contract support is great when it comes to building the infrastructure of your business. But I got to a point after having a few contracted support to really just kind of help me maintain the status quo and keep up with client demands. I have two employees now, so I am big. I am Big Boss Baby to two part time employees who are amazing. So I’m also like a legit CEO and manager of people now. And it’s frickin cool.

Nicole Jackson Miller [00:05:28] That’s awesome. That’s awesome. I would love to dove into the beliefs that you had shared, really? Are you getting like bringing your beliefs and getting focused and on bringing your beliefs into your business, specifically when it comes to diversity, equity and inclusion and what that journey looks like for you? Because I think that, you know, it’s one thing to like, have the value and have the belief, but then actually implementing that and creating actions around it can be a journey. So I’m curious, would you walk us through how that unfolded for you?

Meg Baker [00:06:07] Yeah. So for me, since 10 years ago, when I first learned about critical race theory in my master’s degree program. I used to be a teacher. I have a master’s in education. That’s when I started to be really aware of the systemic injustices of the United States historically and currently speaking. I was confronted with it a lot when I taught students of color and other students that economically are disadvantaged. And then really, the Black Lives Matter movement started in 2014 in St. Louis, well in Ferguson, adjacent to St. Louis when Michael Brown was shot by Darren Wilson. And I was teaching a lot of students of color at the time in downtown St. Louis, across the street from the St. Louis city police headquarters. So there were demonstrations outside and I had to look at my students, especially my black boys students, and really be confronted with the fact that they are more likely to get murdered by the police and that’s really sad and really messed up. So those were some formative moments for me. And then I will say that I don’t want to call it a fake awakening, when the kind of social media awakening happened in the summer of 2020, I kind of felt more permission to just be upfront about my values. And I had some folks advise me, Oh, don’t be so much with social justice because it’s going to polarize or don’t get political, and I kind of wish I hadn’t listened to that advice. So that was kind of a turning point for me where it was like, OK, this is serious, and I wish I had been more upfront about it sooner. But folks who know me know that I’ve been with them for a long time. This has been really important to me. And then what happened was I was called in by a contractor who was working for me, who was a black woman who saw one of my onboarding calls and noticed that there was a misalignment with what I was saying in a conversation with another white business owner. And quite honestly, when addressing issues of race, I seemed kind of flippant and not taking things so seriously. And she said, Listen, as a black woman, this makes me feel really uncomfortable and like, this is where your values actually are. I don’t want to be a part of this. And I said, Well, thank you so much for bringing this to my attention and, you know, being called in or called out, it can really be a blast to your ego and I know a lot of white folks are like, ugh cancel culture. But I really appreciate the conversation that this contractor had with me because it made me realize that my values were not actually in alignment with my actions. So I had her. She’s also a coach like a career coach, so I had her coach me and really hold space for me. That was a big investment to really get clear on my values and to kind of get called out on some of my nonsense bullshit and other words. And then I also joined Trudy’s mastermind. So Nicole, I know you, you have. You’re an alum of that also. But Trudi Lebron, one of my favorite DEI educators. That’s where I learned in that six month program some actionable things to actually bring in the practice of equity and anti-racism into the whole process. So it’s really a mixture of all of that that kind of brought me to where I am today and in my work with my, with my former contractor and the woman who coached me. We realized that one of my values is that she challenged me that instead of just like DEI being a value of mine, that really my passion as racial equity, especially in the workplace and descent into that. Some people might argue that Black Lives Matter isn’t a value, but it is just as to me and really bringing racial equity into the workplace and making sure that we’re breaking down barriers and biases that are keeping folks of color or older folks or LGBT plus folks out of opportunities. And it’s not that employers necessarily need to do this, but it’s something that happens all the time. And then really my second value, I thought it was to lead by example, but it was a push to actually be responsible and hold people accountable and set. A standard for better hiring and more equitable hiring, and kind of it was a maturing moment for me.

Nicole Jackson Miller [00:10:44] And so that really leaned into your ideal client. Right? And who you were bringing in and how you were bringing them in. And it sounds like it starts because I worked with Trudy as well, and I loved the work. I mean, I love her and I love her the way she coaches. And so it’s very much like, start with your values and then you have to start there because that’s like the foundation. And if you’re trying to like, kind of like change these other things without getting really clear on the values you feel like lost without a right now. Don’t be like this, right?

Meg Baker [00:11:15] Right. And you need them to guide you in decision making. And I’ll tell you what. And, you know this, Nicole, as we progress as business owners, especially once we get time, it gets a little trickier to make decisions. So you really need these values to ground you. And I joke that I’ve indoctrinated my employees and my values, but me being really upfront about them really attracted amazing talent when I had my job openings and I have I don’t want to call them my Mini-Me because they are definitely free thinkers, but it’s really cool to see how my clients are served so well with my employees who embody the values and critical thinking and shine light on even some of my blind spots as well. And like, it’s just really cool to see and it’s really cool to have these values that ground me. And yeah, it really did help me with my ideal client because for a minute there I was like, you have to be really woke in order to work with me. But I realized what it actually is, is I. It’s my job to just show people how it’s done and to hold them accountable. So I realize I don’t need to have people who maybe are as passionate or educated about social justice as I am. But what I need is someone who’s open to being coached, who has a desire to do better and who can, who can be critical and address biases. And someone who just won not just once a great hire, but someone who sees value in the work that I do and knows that they don’t have all the answers and they want to do better.

Nicole Jackson Miller [00:12:54] Hmm. So like, how do you do that? How do you get these clients? Because, you know, and I mean, this is something I feel like that we’re always working on because I have gone through this process as well. It’s like, OK, how do I make sure that I’m bringing in clients that are like, open and aligned and we don’t necessarily have to have the same mission statement, but we need to make sure that we can at least have the conversation we have like we’re standing on the same ground. So I imagine I mean, I imagine it would be part your marketing, part application, part like conversations. But how, yeah, how did you even tackle this?

Meg Baker [00:13:31] Yeah, that’s a great question. So at first, I thought it was going to be enough just in my marketing. And just like, yep and podcast, I have been very upfront with where I stand and how I believe white people need to be more accountable. So I thought that was enough. It wasn’t actually. And I noticed that some people sometimes I would have clients kind of get defensive when I brought up issues of race or when I addressed biases. So what I realized was that in my in my application, I had asked a question that was very like, Are you anti-racist? Are you willing to invest in a yes or no? And that did get some people defensive, which for me was actually a good indicator that they were going to cry or not. But I realized that my line in the sand wasn’t necessarily how educated you are, but really, I need to see more of how open you are because I don’t want to cut. I have a reputation of being a good recruiter and a good employer, and you know, and I try to be a safe one and ensure safety for all of my candidates, especially candidates of color, LGBTQ plus folks, I don’t want to bring them into a hostile work environment. Sure.

Nicole Jackson Miller [00:14:47] Yeah. Because that and that’s something that’s it’s like hard to know if you’re working with clients to know, like, OK, you’re while you’re saying these are your values, but like, what does it look like to actually be inside of your company?

Meg Baker [00:14:59] Yeah, exactly. So I rephrase the question asking people what their journey is so I can see if there’s some defensiveness and if it’s, you know, if that does cross my line or not, but just really understanding what the journey is and not not putting, not trying to put people on the defensive or having to feel that they need some sort of like archetype. But just understanding what their journey is and kind of opening, opening up that conversation and kind of setting a standard that this is how we operate here is that we ask those big questions, and right now are my whole process is really hiring processes really based on inquiry and my team and I, we ask critical questions back and forth all the time when it comes to the very nuanced pieces of hiring. So yeah, I did that. And then I also decided that I would get on a phone call with every single prospect. I tried to avoid the phone calls, but I realized that what my agency does is so high-touch and it is a pretty hefty cash investment these days that I need to build a relationship and a rapport, and I really need to see the people and like, speak to them. And I’ve offloaded pretty much like eighty five percent of the other agency stuff that it’s not a big deal for me to get on the phone with leads. So it was part, some of it was kind of navigating things my own way, sometimes ignoring advice from other people to be like, you don’t have to be on a sales call. But for me, I needed that one on one interaction with clients, as with perspectives as well.

Nicole Jackson Miller [00:16:42] And that is something that you can, you know, if depending on how big you want to grow your business like you can, you’ve made the decision like our company takes sales calls. And so it’s like, you know, right now, that’s you. And like potentially in the future, you could have somebody else doing it too.

Meg Baker [00:16:58] My sales strategy or not my my, my hiring strategist, Rachel, we do see her being able to take those calls, but she’s only been with us for 90 days. Right, well, you got it. And she has interviews to do with candidates. But yeah, but it it’s me kind of sitting into this process and I’ve realized about myself too, is that I like to be the one to get my hands dirty with a process first before I offload it to somebody so I can actually have some SOPs and it doesn’t have to be perfect, right? But yeah, to go back to your question of how do I kind of suss it out? It’s been clear in my marketing and in my messaging, for sure. And it’s also asking this question right away about just what’s your journey and what’s your experience with anti-racism? And like, are you open to it? And then having one on one conversations with people. And I do find that to be more equitable as well, to give people a chance to ask questions and like just having that transparency, which Nicole, you and I have learned is really important and laboratory leadership that truly talks about what I want to be. I just want to be a good business person. I want to. I want to dismantle oppressive systems, and having conversations with people just seems like a really good way to do it and to have that transparency so people know what they’re getting before they buy from me.

Nicole Jackson Miller [00:18:21] Totally. And I feel the same way about management, and we’ve talked about this where it’s like, you know, there’s a lot of problematic practices. And, you know, a lot of this is in corporate America. And I over the years have learned how to put words around that to realize like, Oh, this is this systematic oppression and like, how do we change this? And a lot of it and people who listen to me and this podcast or whatever know that it’s like there has to be conversations. I had a whole podcast about conscious conversations with like our friend Erin Lindstrom and stuff, and it’s like being able to have conversations and understand where people are coming from and like, have a dialog around it as opposed to like, These are our rules and you follow them and there isn’t a conversation. It’s just like, I don’t know, there’s the human element that’s just taken out of that. And of course, like, there needs to be processes and there needs to be systems in those things. But there’s ways to like, make them more flexible.

Meg Baker [00:19:16] Yeah.

Nicole Jackson Miller [00:19:17] When they need to be flexible, right?

Meg Baker [00:19:18] And we did not say that we were going to talk about leadership, I’m going to go into it.

Nicole Jackson Miller [00:19:23] Let’s do it. I mean, this is all. Yeah. Uh-Huh. Go for it.

Meg Baker [00:19:27] I’ve learned the difference between transactional leadership and transformational leadership. And I see with my people that my style is quite democratic because it feels equitable to me. But also, I don’t want all the pressure of making every single decision, and I like to give people control over things that I’m fine with them controlling. But then when I need to make a judgment call like I decided we were switching payroll providers this week, and that’s a judgment call I really needed to make. And I don’t think my employees are too angry about it because I give them control over a lot of other things. And I noticed, you know, I love that my team comes to me with suggestions on how to make things better. They were like, Hey, we need to have a two hour or an hour conversation about who does what and better defining our roles. And that was so helpful. Yeah, they just like, make me better. But also in this conversation, I had a conversation with my hiring strategist where we did have a dialog going back and forth about one of our processes. And it was nice that there was some give and take. And some back and forth and like questions asked and not just like, you know, Rachel, I told you we got to do it this way, but it’s just making us better. And I love it. And this is a big part of hiring and retention and just being a good boss. But as trying to develop people, that’s like transformational leadership. I’m trying to figure out how to articulate this better when I’m telling people like invest in having us hire for you or like learn from me how to hire. But it’s also like seeing people’s talents like their raw talents and learning how to develop those and like use them, and Nicole I know you’re big on having people do what they like inside of your organization, inside of a job. And yeah, and even though I feel like kind of an imposter, sometimes when I’m like, I’m like, I managed third graders like, who am I to run, you know, to manage employees in my six figure company? One thing when I just had a review with one of my employees lately was that she really appreciated that I see potential in her and I’m giving her opportunities and I’m developing her like with my PR strategy. I would like some of her support in tweaking some of my messaging and sending some of my pitches for podcasts, and she’s never had an opportunity like that before. And I just like developing people and it’s almost like, I feel like there’s a fear that service providers have of coaching teams or managing. I feel like management is a bad word. Yeah, but we do it for our clients all the time. Like, I feel like it’s a really transferable skill. And I kind of took for granted that this makes me a really good manager and it makes me a really sought after and desirable boss that I do have this transformational style.

Nicole Jackson Miller [00:22:28] Yes. And I think it’s I mean, I like management can sometimes feel like a dirty word when it comes to it because, you know, I mean, and I get it, it’s like when you already are doing so much and it’s like, on top of that now you’re like responsible for people and like all of the things that can all of the things and experiences that go along with it, it’s I think when you when you have when you when you have like the right people, it also makes managing, you know, and of course, you need more than people. It’s like processes and offers, and you have to have those foundational elements of your business in place. But like when you have the right people, it becomes like a pleasure to manage. And I think that that’s why I like the work that you do is so important. It’s helping people find their their people.

Meg Baker [00:23:16] And yeah, and I think one thing that holds people back too is this fear around the responsibility that’s going to happen if you have contractors or employees or like all the things that you know, with compliance with IRS and all that stuff that comes to having employees. But like we’re made for this, I don’t know as entrepreneurs and like that that just kind of ties back with me with my value of setting the bar and like setting the expectation to hold ourselves accountable. I feel like some people really hesitate with the hiring process. And of course, you need those certain things in place, like you said in a pool of your offers, some of your processes and like money, those are things you definitely need. But I feel like sometimes people keep themselves from moving forward when really they’re in a good position to do it because they’re afraid of the responsibility that comes with that.

Nicole Jackson Miller [00:24:13] How do you help clients? I mean, do you have clients that come to you that are in that position or you’re even like, you know, have you felt that way? Like, how do you how do you over? How do you over? I mean, is it something you even overcome? I don’t know if I even even, if I’m using this word. It’s like, Dude, it’s like, I don’t know if we overcome this necessarily.

Meg Baker [00:24:36] I mean, I can speak personally that it’s definitely been scary. But just seeing the liberation I have felt in myself in taking on these other responsibilities, I don’t know. It’s just kind of like tough love on myself and a belief in myself that I can figure it out because I figured out everything else. And I think sometimes it’s a copout for us if we’re like, This is too much, I don’t want to learn about compliance or paperwork. And also, I have an H.R. referral partner that helps me with H.R. compliance. And just so that helps that. But I feel like when you don’t know what you don’t know, that’s when it can be really scary. So I would just invite people to learn what you don’t know and rise up to it. You’ve gotten this far, like why not? And I think sometimes people feel like it’s a corporate mess or like, Oh, but if I’m anti oppression, why am I going to do these systems of employment? Well, because it’s the law making because. Compliance, I mean, there’s a lot to learn about the difference between a contractor, an employee, and I believe in both of them. I’m at a point where I need reliable employee support. But it’s just kind of the law and I am a grown ass human being that I can figure it out. And that’s one of the reasons why I switched payroll providers, honestly, is because I felt kind of disempowered because I didn’t understand what paperwork was happening like. I didn’t know if my quarterly tax stuff was being filed. So I decided to go to, yes, a more expensive payroll provider. But where I have a sales rep and like, I can just take a little more ownership and understand the compliance. But I just felt like having an employee and doing this more like masculine structure wasn’t for me or wasn’t accessible to me because I’m a mom and I’m funny and blah blah blah. But it is accessible to me, and I’m doing myself a disservice when I’m saying that it’s too hard or when I’m making these excuses to not figure it out. Like, Yeah, it’s a little scary when I have employees in organ and I’m in Illinois and it’s like, What are all these things? But once I do it, once it’s not that bad and I get to invest and I actually get to train people, which technically technically you’re not supposed to do with the contractor, folks. You can’t afford those people.

Nicole Jackson Miller [00:26:56] Yes, totally.

Meg Baker [00:26:57] I get to help make their dreams come true and like, it’s pushing me to be a better person because my revenue is I’m not one that’s motivated by I want a big ass salary so I can have a swimming pool like I want to give my employees benefits and investment options. And like, I’m just very privileged that way. I guess that like I kind of on my own, I have all that safety, so I’m not motivated by the big numbers. But what I am motivated by is doing things differently and making good, meaningful work opportunities for people.

Nicole Jackson Miller [00:27:32] I’m so glad you shared that because a big question I get asked. And it’s usually like if people are watching some of my Instagram videos, they’ll all ask, like, is there anything that you would love covered or like? What are some of your goals? And they’ll say, like, I really want to get to the place where I can hire employees. And it’s like, Well, what does that mean, exactly? Because, you know, there’s I we had, you know, an H.R. person come in to like one of my programs and she was actually the easiest. And like most, I see first in the sense of like a legal way to bring on somebody is just hire a part time employee and everyone’s like, what? You know, because when we think of employees, we think of them like either police that we’ve worked where they’ve come in and there’s been like a high salary and huge benefits and all of these things. And so, you know, it’s way more doable, but I think you’re right. It’s like a lot of the fear is just like not even knowing that there’s an option or that so like a way that you can, there’s a way for you to do it, no matter kind of where you are in in the business journey like you don’t to reach like this revenue number in order to hire employees.

Meg Baker [00:28:45] No, what really it comes down to is a cash flow because like I hit six figures. Cool, but revenue is only one measure. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Because really, if you know, if you have some cash reserves and you know that you can pay that payroll for a couple of months and you have your scalable offer, you know, you have plenty of evidence that what you do sells and it’s good for people. Yeah. And you have to be committed to those values and your why. And yeah, it’s a little bit of a pain being like, OK, I got to be a sport now and like better, but I feel like a badass that I have employees now. I brag to every relative who will listen to me because I’m like, I am legitimate now. I’m on my own payroll, but it just makes me committed for real, right? And I know we were saying it was the easiest way to get support. It doesn’t have to be LABS theory of a commitment like, sure, there’s an investment in setting up, you know, on their time investment of like S-Corp and payroll. But like your hourly, the hourly wages are way less than you were with a contractor. So, yeah, it’s a bit of a long game because, right, you can fill some holes in the boat if your boat is sinking. Get some contractors. And that’s what I did with the contractor. They had a lot of that expertise. I just needed them to come in and like, take care of business. And that was great. But yeah, having employees is a good long term growth strategy and you don’t have to have a certain revenue number. I think it’s more about how much actual cash you have sitting around.

Nicole Jackson Miller [00:30:26] Yeah. Before we wrap up, I would love for you to share. For those who are wondering, like, when do I hire someone like you and your team? To do this for me versus when I do it myself, and it’s funny because this question has also come up in my programs, specifically very recently AGENCY, where people are joining the program to delegate client delivery. And there’s a lot of things that need to be done in the business in order to support hiring actually working. And so, you know, if there are businesses in a point where I know that they’re ready to hire, but not just that, but also like when this is a very long, long question, when would they be? When would they reach out to you to do it for them versus like doing it themselves? And I know you’ve been in this like you’ve been in the position of having to hire in your own business. I’m just very curious about your perspective.

Meg Baker [00:31:21] Yeah, I would say one of I mean, do you have the money in which to outsource things? That’s a big one to think about. But I would also be more apt to outsource if you are looking for an employee and the employees, mainly being the people who are doing your client delivery. Like I’ve been long term, like I’ve had contractors help me with client delivery, but it was short term, right? But like I learned from the IRS for a lot of different reasons too. And like I, intellectual property employees are really your best bet for client delivery. So like, I’ve hired contractors for four people before, but it’s usually been for auxiliary things like marketing, not for client delivery. But I’d say if you’re looking to hire an employee, we’re really good at getting super help, helping you get really clear on what the roles and responsibilities of that employee are and finding the right folks to fill the role and filling that role and then giving you a lot of leads. If for whatever reason, it doesn’t work out, you have a lot of leads. And then you also have a process that we’ve created that we can either relaunch for you or you can relaunch at any time. So I think when you’re looking for an employee as a good indicator. And I would definitely say it’s definitely a good idea to outsource. If you don’t, if you know you want to do your due diligence and you know you want to have a fair process and you don’t want to spend the 30 to 40 hours in which to do it correctly. That’s also a good indicator that you want to outsource it. Yeah.

Nicole Jackson Miller [00:33:00] And I think and I’m so glad you mentioned the system to help them do it again because, you know, with hiring, you could have the greatest process in the world. You can have the best interviews. And like, you know, we’re working with people and your business is evolving. They’re evolving, you know, like sometimes things are going to work out. And so the fact that like, it’s so much easier once you have that system in place, then to be able to rehire.

Meg Baker [00:33:25] We call future and then repeat, Yeah, and this is an operational piece of business like big companies have whole departments before, right? Yeah. And I’m going on a tangent here a bit, but that was also something I noticed in my messaging. And I know Nicole, you saw you’ve seen that I’ve rebranded and kind of going back to like my ideal client that I’m really here, that my kind of tagline is like hiring for socially conscious businesses. So I’ve done the rebrand, socially conscious, you know, hiring for socially conscious business owners. But I’ve realized, too and doing my rebrand and my messaging that I was putting too much focus on, like my process and retention. It will help you retain people, but really people, I have no control and no guarantees over what people are going to do. Like, we can’t control people, but what we can control is the process and the leads that we generate. So I’ve really had to be super clear in my messaging to and how I position my services, that it is about the role and about filling it and less about like magical unicorns. Oh, my messaging around like matchmaking. Because then I had people come to me being like, I spent all this money on you and they didn’t even work out, but it’s like a baby. But baby, we have the process. And like, you can rinse and repeat it like, right? This isn’t a business operation. Hiring is a function of business operations. So I kind of part of my journey to Nicole since we last spoke in on the podcast has me getting clearer on how I need to position myself and how what’s not working for me in terms of positioning. And a lot of it is putting more emphasis on the role and more emphasis on objectivity like how we screen people. And that’s how we weed out a lot of those unnecessary biases that keep us from getting, you know, everyone’s like, I want diverse candidates, which is kind of code for like, not white, but really diverse, diverse. Meaning people from many different backgrounds, people who have different upbringings than you. It’s better for business, quite honestly. But when we have more focus on the process and you know, how can we get in front of a lot of people? How can we attract great, great candidates? That’s my tangent about all of that.

Nicole Jackson Miller [00:35:56] Amazing. How do people find you?

Meg Baker [00:35:59] You can find me on my newly rebranded website, MegKCo.com. I would love for you to come there, and when you go there, you’ll see lots of great stuff. You’ll see my are done for signature, done-for-you. Hiring package I have some great freebies. A checklist on how to know when you’re ready to hire, and a checklist giving you a rough overview of the hiring process and lots of other great stuff too. So that’s MegKCo.com.

Nicole Jackson Miller [00:36:26] Thank you so much for coming here again and sharing just like everything with us. I love how open you are and I know that that is also what makes you such a great leader. So I am. I feel very grateful to have you here to know you, and I’m so glad you’re doing this work because it’s so very important.

Meg Baker [00:36:46] Nicole, thank you so much for this opportunity and I’ve just loved having you as my mentor, and I just thank you so much for the opportunity to come back on the pod.

Nicole Jackson Miller [00:36:55] All right, everyone, and we’ll see you next week. Thanks so much for tuning in. If you are ready to stop settling for being a done-for-you service provider and really fully step into the role of agency owner and CEO and lead a team that you love that just delivers excellent client results, then you have to check out my new program called Agency, which is specifically designed to remove you from at least 50 percent of client delivery in 12 months or less, so that you can have the time in the space to be able to run your business and, you know, to take a tech free vacation, too. That’s always nice, right? So if you’re interested in learning more, head over to Nicole Jackson Millicom slash applies. You can learn more about the program. If it looks like a good fit, then apply and we will send you before our call. We’ll send you a free business assessment that will really explain more about the framework that we use to remove you from client delivery, and it’ll give you an assessment that you can take to really show where you are now and where you’re going. We’ve had so many people get a lot of insight just from taking that assessment, so I can’t wait for you to check it out.